Singletraction Forum

This interest has come up before. We've talked to FE (the land manager) about it, actively trying to get permission for such a development. They have said "no" to DH trails, pretty categorically. They have also said "no" to any new develpoments at the woods baring minor bits and pieces.

We are constantly negotiating with them to let us do the small elements we have and are building on anyway e.g. extension to DL, extend / rebuild pump track and recover (to a very limited standard) the trails on Norwood side.

In short, I don't think you have a chance. That probably sounds negative and dismissive but it isn't. It's just my portrayal of the situation after 5 years-ish of liaising with FE about the site and MTB develpoments there. They are also likely to insist you do anything as part of SingletrAction (as we have a track record with them and hold the required insurance).

On another note, if you know who it is that keeps putting a line through the badger sett (Norwood Edge site i.e. with the crag) would you please ask them to stop?

The line in question is nice, and it used to lead down, over the fireroad and over the platform drop (now hacked up by FE on safety grounds). The Badger set is the large sandy mound that the unsanctioned trails drop over (a little above the fire road). It's pretty sandy soil and characterised by some big holes Badgers are protected by law and continued riding / trail development through there is viewed very dimly by FE. Hence the signs they put up a little while ago.

SingletrAction is generally staying out of it BUT if it starts to erode the relationship with FE that's allowing us to develop the trails that we have there already then that would be a great shame.

Blimey, that's all a bit heavy. Not supposed to be, honest

You'd be welcome to come to a dig and have a chat to understand the situation at Stainburn more (you wouldn't have to dig). First Sunday's of every month. I won't be there in April but there's lots of knowledgeable guys to talk to, particularly Knacker.

If you want to discuss anything else you're welcome to email me; timsellors[at]googlemail[dot]com.

If you want to contact FE regarding your suggestion then you should email cath.brason@forestry.gsi.gov.uk and stuart.startup@forestry.gsi.gov.uk who are the members of the Recreation Team looking after the wood.

ok well me and my mates might pop up one weekend and to go clear out a dh trail somewair secret for now and build it up because once its built theere is little the fc can do yes they can fell trees over it but there easaly moved plus the fe only tend to get annoyed when you disturb a bager set or two like you said but i know how to get round that. i do know who created that trail through the bager set it was some friends of mine. damn! stupid fe that took us an age to build that drop i might go up and make a huge stepdown there istead now. i have told my friends to stop riding that trail but i think it is other people now.

just a question why did you decide to build a set of xc/all mountain trails in the first place and not two xc trails and a downhill trail? because there are allready a huge amount of accessable xc and all mountain trails in our area but there are no dh trails appart from mine witch is a short corse one.

i still think there should be a dh built even if the fe say we cant.

So you and a small minority are going to risk upsetting the land managers just for selfish gain and risk ruining everything for everybody else?

Ask yourself if that is the clever and mature thing to do?



Did you not read any of Cheekys reply? The reason there are no DH trails is because FE will not allow it. They wouldn't allow it years ago when the trails were started and they won't allow it now. Period.

Do us a favour and don't go off blazing your own trails in the woods They'll get found by FE eventually (possibly quicker than you might imagine), it'll erode the half-decent relationship we have with them and make any more development even harder than it already is. We've got what we've got so far thanks to that relationship (amongst other things) so if you like that and think it's worth coming to the woods maybe that's a good reason to listen to us .......

I know FE get "annoyed" about unsanctioned trails as I'm one of the people they turn to and either ask or have a pop at when they find them. We get permission for the trails we build in advance (often a year or more beforehand). Having a good relationship with them makes this process easier than it might be although it is a right palaver anyway. Having that good relationship also helps us when we try to assist other people on FE land e.g. Gisburn, Guisborough, Dalby, Silton and Wharnsliffe (OK, that last one's not a great example).

You don't just have to disturb a Badger Sett, there can be all sorts of things. Jumps and platforms will get particularly quick attention because they have a higher inherent risk which the land manager will have to be seen to respond to in a quick way.

The platform drop was well planned and worked as a feature but it came off / over one of the few designated footpaths in the woods. It's not a good idea to combine fast bikes and walkers and that FP has been there long before anyone rode the woods I imagine. Whilst the drop was popular as well it wasn't up to FE's construction standards (have a look at the timber work on the other side, all pressure treated timber, drilled and bolted, multiple fixings and cross bracing etc). I'm amazed they let it stay in place for as long as they did.

FE don't want anything they consider to be "built" (their particular definition) on the Norwood side anymore. Hence the recent destruction of all the timber work that we'd put in over the years.

Planning for the trail developments at Stainburn probably took place nearly 10 years ago. The intention was to build a super technical XC course as that was believed to be the best use of the site, it's topography, size etc. This is complicated a little because the intention was to have formal trails on both sides of the road. Unfortunately FE have backed away from that agreement hence we can only have an informal trail in Norwood. Fingers crossed over time we'll be able to convince them it's worth having a formal trail there but that job will be all the harder if there's been loads of problems, you get my drift

I wouldn't agree there is lots of accessible XC trails that replicate the experience of the riding that can be had at Stainburn. So I don't think it is such a duplicate as you seem to. TBH, I don't think the woods are big (talking about the Boulder Trail side) to build a decent DH trail in.

FE (and funders) also like trails to appeal to as wide a section of users as possible. Whilst I accept such a hard XC trail excludes some people, a dedicated DH trail would exclude even more. There are all sorts of factors to balance.

Also, the nature of the trails we built are (in a big way) a result of the people that turned out to build them. We've been building there for nearly 8 years, I think, and I doubt what we have there or build in the future will fundamentally change. Still, there are lots of things beyond our control so it's hard to say.

All that probably makes me sound like you "Dad". Not my intention, just trying to get over as much info as possible with my thick, sausage like fingers

Hey, let's all be cool

This was the last meeting with FE and agreements reached:

Matthew.

Clearly from the above post you can see that we are not playing games here. Working on somebody else's land is serious business. Whilst it might just be 'aving it large on bikes to you, to those of us who are a bit more actively involved it is nothing of the sort.

Whilst we don't want to curb your enthusiasm, you really do need to think about what you are saying with your apparent 'couldn't care less' attitude.

ok i understand the situation now. its a bit confusing though how the fc are allowed to go and chop down basically all the tree's, but were not allowed a dh line in the allready felled part? why exactly are we not allowed one there not replanting the felled areas are they? oh and we have found a good place to build a secret dh trail nearer my home its gonna be good. we have allready got a roadgap there aswell.

Nice to hear back from you. It can all be explained but it'd take too much effort to type it all out just now. Come to a dig, ask for Cheeky or Knacker and we'll have a stab at explaining it all.

Plus you can get some first hand to tips on how to build trails, might prove useful for your other "project". I'm not asking questions

ye ill have to pop down sometime. i think ive met you befor we were riding up neer the old shore drop on the little fire road downhill section and you stopped and asked us about that bager set trail thing you were on a green hardtail i think and then once we had finished speeking you road off down the yellow/gold. ive road down the extension to the decent you are building too it looks like its going to be good once its finished.

I think I met the chap developing the trail up there. A really stocky chap, alone except for his Iron Horse Sunday Team. He claimed he wanted to build a faster steeper trail than the XC offered. He also claimed he could clean the Warren Boulder Trail! ...With a brush and pan he could!

If I see him again I'll put him in the right

Ol

I'm a stocky chap, but my Sunday is a black + gold Elite, please don't confuse me with him!

Shall be on the d.line this Sunday touch wood, never ventured to the Norwood side.

darleydirtbiker, have you tried the red run's decent line? I've been on it today and it was a good ride. Met a chap who was just doing that as dh today.

"Mabie"

Wut?